Welcome to Freaks and Creeks, a Dawson's Creek podcast, the show where four millennials who missed the boat 25 years ago take the dive for the first time. Join join us as we experience the series with a fresh perspective week to week and see if our adolescent experiences match up with Dawson and the gang. My name is Cody.

I'm Stella.

I'm Mallory and I am James. And this week we are talking about season one, episode five Hurricane. When a major Hurricane strikes Capeside, all the principal characters take refuge in the Leary home, including Joey's very pregnant older sister Bessie and her boyfriend. This is where Jen's overly religious grandmother also does not hide her bigotry towards them. Also, Dawson rages at Jen about her past and at Joey for not confiding in him about her mother's Philandering. But when Mitch learns about Gayle's affair, he angrily storms out of the house, leaving a tormented Dawson to deal with the fallout. Meanwhile, Pacey takes shelter at Tamara's Beach house with his brother Doug, a local policeman, where he ruins his brother's chance to hook up with Tamra by secretly telling her that Doug is gay. This episode was released on February 17, 1998, and if this show couldn't get more problematic and shitty, this episode somehow found a way to do that. Um what did you guys think of your watch?

Stella, I love this episode so much.

Um.

I don't have words. Uh cody and I watched it, I think, right after we reported the last one. And I do think I maybe was kind of stoned, but I just remember laughing like so much and just being in shock every step of the way. It felt unreal.

Yeah. It felt like a fever dream when I washed it. I washed it a couple of days later after seeing everybody's reaction to this, I think everybody washed it about that same timing. And wow, it is psychotic is, I think, the best word to describe psychotic episode.

Yeah.

Absolutely insane.

Yeah. It's everything and more. When I watch a television program and it ends up being something that is very ridiculous. A certain episode, I will actively look for a podcast or something to touch on it. And I feel like if this show gets any Wilder, this won't be that episode. But if this is the wild, I imagine people are going to be coming back and be like, what do people think of this? Because uh as an episode, F minus, as entertainment uh goes, a plus plus. Uh every second that went by, my eyes melted, my ears burned, and I could not believe what was going through my brain.

I feel like Cody and I were just like screaming throughout the whole episode, just in disbelief.

It's a good mess. It's a Hurricane, if you will.

Yeah. Feeling like it was going to be so like a cozy. It's like a snow day. Everyone's in the house and you could just tell us, we're going to be a lot of good interactions.

Yeah.

Enjoy. Stepped out the window and said, Your life is going to be a Hurricane.

It sure was. Yeah. It felt like it was going to be like a cozy mystery. It could have been a who done it at any point in time, but also could have been a horror movie at multiple points in time. I mean, there was soap opera elements. This episode really has it all. And. Uh yeah, I just can't wait to get into it and talk about this episode. It's just a crazy one.

Yeah.

A few episodes we had talked about how we wish uh there was an episode that would have all the characters being forced to interact with one another, so we would get kind of an idea of who they are. And I guess this is it, Casey, because even this show realizes that he's in a different world. But uh loved, loved. These interactions. They were absurd sometimes. Didn't even feel like the same characters that we've been introduced to. Loving it. It's great. I hope the trajectory of the show means that this isn't even the wildest episode. I want this show to continue to be this weird and this bad forever.

I agree. It just heightened. It just kept going. It kept being like, okay, let's get all these characters in the same room. How can everything go crazy from this point on? Okay, well, let's make uh grams of crazy races. How about that?

That'll be good.

It was great. I think my only issue really was that pacey yet again, was isolated from the rest of the drama and the rest of the narrative, because as we've talked about over and over again, who the fuck is this character and why is he in this show? He feels so disconnected. All he wants to do is have sex with his older lady teacher. Um does he have interests? I um don't think so.

Okay.

He did mention some for what he was going to do, like instead of putting signs up with his brother. I won't get to that.

Yeah.

What an episode. Anybody have anything that they want to talk about before we get into the scene by scene? Or should we just dive into the episode? Probably should just dive on in. Cody, take us away.

The opening teaser scene catches Dawson and Joey in the middle of a disaster movie marathon. While swapping to a new movie, they catch Dawson's mom and her co anchor extramarital lover Bob, reporting of a Hurricane coming through town and that classes are going to be canceled. Dawson here admits that he hasn't told his mom that he knows of her affair and expresses that he feels as though this Hurricane has hit the pause button on his life.

I um thought it was really disgusting that it was so blatantly obvious, like uh how Gail and Bob were flirting on TV.

Um we're talking about Bet, like staying in bed. Yeah.

They're like, I can't remember what they.

Said tomorrow would be the perfect day to stay in bed all day, right? Bob and Bob's like, yeah, Gail, okay.

But if Dustin sees that, he's like, could they be any more obvious? Right. Okay.

Were those studio notes? Do you think that the producers were like, okay, yeah, the news is pretty boring. Nobody's tuning in anymore. Can we get some sexual tension going on? Bob Gale trying to fuck each other a little bit. How did it the producers be like, okay, let's do one more take of that one. Try not to be so horny.

It's the news, baby. It's live.

I was excited to hear that twister.

Was included in their disaster movie. Seance. Anybody else? Uh i watched it so many times. See?

You never seen it. I remember being on TV and being.

Like, you haven't lived until you've seen a cartoon cow get picked up.

You've mentioned the cartoon cow before.

All I think about is the cartoon cow and Philip Seymour Hoffman in that movie.

He is?

Yeah, I thought he was in that.

So I have some thoughts here about um Dawson and Joey. When this starts, they talk about how they are doing their disaster movie Seance to try to get school canceled. And then when they announce that school has been canceled for their school, they rejoice. Now, I believe this is a twist on my current head Cannon for this show. Dawson has some supernatural ability because he calls in Hurricane Chris to come and close school for them. What does that mean about his monster movie? Does it mean that he's also calling monsters into Capeside ie the vampires and the Lost Boys and all of the other um supernatural entities that are coming through Capeside? This is actually a secret supernatural show?

100% correct, James. I wrote a note about how they specifically mentioned that Grandpa later on is going to be in the hospital and he's dodging the Hurricanes.

Oh, yeah, I got some thoughts about that.

And you know what happens when there's a Hurricane? The sun is blotted out. Vampires can freely walk among Capeside without any hiring. And I don't know if these are Twilight vampires or the traditional Nosferatus or Dracula's. So are they sparkling? Are they melting? We don't know yet. Well, we don't know if we've seen one yet.

Okay, we'll um talk about this more later. But um I just realized that we're talking about vampires. I was looking up. What's her name? Leanne Hurley Hunley, who plays the teacher.

She's uh from Forks.

Oh.

Wow. Is she a vampire or a werewolf? Is that what Twilight is all about? The eternal War. Okay, eternal war.

Did anyone take note of what Dawson uh had on his side table? Yes, they really focused on I was looking at the camera. So it was a portrait of Stephen Spielberg.

Oh, yes.

In a frame. A um Trex Dino with a bandage on its leg, a baby doll head, aviator sunglasses, magazines, and then an old fashioned alarm clock with the little bells. Yeah, I thought that was.

And the wind blows over the Steven.

Spielberg in the beginning, Spielberg gets knocked over and then it knocks over the dinosaur or something.

Interesting metaphor.

Very symbolic for the character change for Dawson this episode.

Does anybody know was Hurricane Chris real?

No, I looked it up.

Okay.

It was not real.

I was just wondering, was that referencing some Hurricane that went through the Eastern seaboard and did some damage? Was there some currency to that?

I don't think there was even one at that time, but maybe when he was writing it, there was one.

I um mean, great idea and super evocative. What a great way to set your episode. What a good way? Like we're already talking about makes it a pressure cooker. So I thought that was really fun.

Before I make what could possibly be an incredibly stupid response to all of this, I want to say I don't know anything about science. I don't know anything about weather. Do Hurricanes uh ever just last 20 minutes?

They can move pretty quickly, so potentially. But I don't.

I think tornadoes could not sure about Hurricanes, though.

We don't need to get into Meteorology talk here. But, yeah, tune into Meteorology talk with James if you want to know more about this. But it is conceivable that it could just come and go like that, but pretty uh wild for sure to just be like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Everybody batted down my hatches. Never uh mind. Everything's okay.

As Joey says later in this episode, you're born, you make some mistakes and you die. And I think my biggest mistake is I don't know anything about weather.

Wow. Um you're doing okay. If that's the biggest concern you have.

Everything else perfect.

So when Joey and Dawson are talking about what to watch next, Joey wants to watch Poseidon Adventure. Has anyone seen this? Okay, because everything is upside down. I Googled this looked on YouTube. I encourage everyone to search the tidal wave scene from the movie, The Poseidon Adventure. It's um like watching Titanic on steroids with confetti is insane. They're like on a boat and everything literally goes upside down. I have no idea how they filmed it, but it looks amazing.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. Didn't they do, like, a remake of that movie in the 2000s or something like that? I don't think it was called The Poseidon's Adventure when they remade it, but it was the exact same story lifted.

It's just called Poseidon, right?

Yeah, I remember that movie was sick as hell. I loved that movie.

Um so it was very much the same. Your Daddy's Poseidon Adventure. It was extreme sexy. Yeah.

I would love to watch the whole movie because it's wild and that's like.

Golden Age of disaster movies.

I had another note about items in Dawson's bedroom. There was a bag of chips on his bed. Anyone uh think that looked familiar?

What do you mean?

For you?

No, I'm pretty sure they were Juanitas, which I had no idea. Started, like in the Seventies in Hood River here in Oregon. For those who are listening, um Juanita's chips are pretty popular, but I had no idea that they were around that long ago.

I didn't notice that. I thought they were also called it out.

You're like, Are those Juanitas when we were watching?

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, apparently I did notice that I looked it up. Look at that. Interesting.

Well, the intro credits begin and they happen and then they leave. Our post credit scene shows Capeside counties either packing up or boarding up businesses in lieu of the coming storm.

This is where we get REMS. It's the end of the world as we know it, and it's gone as soon as it arrives. I was hoping that we were going to get some more Capeside Town stuff.

I enjoyed the woman with the suitcase. That was.

The director was like, okay, we need to really sell that this Hurricane is building up. Okay, you um there with the suitcase. The wind is going so strong, you.

Can'T pull it up a curb.

You cannot struggle more.

Hair is, like, just blowing.

When there's not a Hurricane. She can just rip that suitcase off the curve like nobody's business. But somehow, now that there's some wind.

It'S like she's definitely the star of that.

That was such a funny choice.

I have the mind of a goldfish, so I don't remember, but are they using the exact same townies for the later shot where it shows people taking boards off their building? Six extras for 12 hours. We're going to do both.

I think it was the same spot.

Yeah, definitely. Listeners, let us know if you caught if it's the same people, because I bet they didn't even stop to take. They're like, okay, great. Now just take those boards down, people. We got it. Time is a ticket.

Uh sunlight took away the wind.

Love the wind.

Machines of this episode. Shout out and we smash cut to Dawson also packing up some stuff around the outside of his house as the wind really starts to pick up lots.

Of chairs being put away.

I uh didn't really understand. Well, my brain exploded a uh lot while watching this episode. I think the first instance of that happening was what was he uh putting his stuff into that he pulled, like a drop shade thing down to save his chairs?

Yeah.

Is that a shed of paper?

Yeah, it was the strangest thing.

Must be really popular on the East Coast. Maybe that's probably what I've never heard of before.

Yeah.

Listeners, right in. Please let us know.

Calm down. Hi, Pete Thompson's, paper shed store. Get all your paper shed store needs. So inside the Leary household, Gail is on the phone with a station manager who's informing her that Bob will be the um field reporter for the Hurricane and she'll have to stay home. Her husband, Mr. Manmade, himself, Mitch Leery is excited for her to stay put when Dawson walks in and catches them embracing. Mitch tells them that he's going to go to next door and see if Jen and her grandma want to stay with them to wait out the storm. When he leaves, Dawson drops a lot of not so subtle hints that he knows exactly what's going on with his mom and Bob before leaving to finish some Hurricane preparation.

All right, so on this um subject of Ms. Leary on the phone last episode, I talked about how everybody sounds the same in this fucking show and all the dialogue is written for one person, but just different characters read it. Here is an example of that. It's uh Ms. Leery after she has gotten off the phone, now talking to Mr. Manmade himself. Listen, I take it they're not letting you cover the Hurricane?

Of course not.

I'm missing a certain appendage between my legs, which apparently makes one uniquely qualified to cover inclement weather.

Well, me and my appendage are both thrilled that you will be here safe where you belong.

All right.

Flashlight, candles, cold shower and batteries. Now, I love the way Dawson delivers that cold shower line. It made me laugh every time I watch this, but apparently I'm missing a certain appendage between my leg, which makes me blah, blah. It's just like that is the exact same style of line that Dawson would read that Joey has read that Jen has read that Pacey has said that. I mean, every single character has this exact line.

Yeah. I mean, it's obnoxious. Uh i can't get it out of my head that the first note that any writer does when they're trying to create a television show is you can Journal as your characters so you can figure out what their voices. And it seems like Kevin and uh his friends that were on this writer's room, uh they all just said, no, we're just going to write everyone to sound exactly the same. And you can just, like, swap these characters out. Maybe it's based on when actors were going to be on the set and they'll just, I don't know, hand them a script that says blank, and then they're allowed to read as that blank character.

It's very weird.

Also, Gail says uh something about Darning, my husband's socks. Anyone know what that means?

Yes. I think it's like mending. Darning is a type of mend on socks, I believe um may be wrong. Yeah. She's basically referencing like, oh, I'm a woman, so I'm just going to stay home and do homemaker thing. But I thought it was cool to see her speaking up to her boss.

Yeah.

We haven't really seen much of Mrs. Leary.

She's a nothing character.

Yes. And was so cringy when Mr. Leary was like, we stay here where you belong.

Yeah, it's cool that we got by Dick. We got that new tidbit that his penis is sentient.

Yes, I didn't know that. But it explains a lot. I actually think that he is just one walking penis. I think that's all he actually is.

Yeah. I mean, if you put a brain in a penis and said, what do you want to do with your life? That penis would say, I want to make an aquatic theme restaurant.

Um what did you guys think about Dawson confronting his mom there?

He doesn't know what he's doing. He never knows what he's doing. And so there's just something about the character of Dawson who pumps himself up, that he's always ready for action, and he's, like, good at what he does. But when it's time for him to actually prove that moment, he's extremely sloppy. So even in the sequence where he's trying to be cool and drop these subtle hints, it comes across as wretched and not interesting and not very good. And also, Gail, I honestly cannot tell you if she knows that he knows or if she's just like, wow, I think my son is broken.

No, I think she knew. I think her look there was like, oh, he knows. Also, he was so. I feel like it was so passive aggressive, like, the way that he was.

Yeah, let's listen to him. I actually clipped it here. Let's take a listen. But that's a great guy, isn't he? Maybe on the Tom Hanks Harrison Ford idealistic side.

Solid like a rock, without question and faithful.

This conversation has never fucking happened before. Nobody's been like. And solid like a rock. Like, is this a Ford commercial?

Yeah. I also felt like when Dawson is saying that piece of it, that Gail doesn't really know what's happening, but then by the end, she's like, oh, yeah.

She even says, like, oh, boy or something like that. Right? So I think that's the moment we see that as the moment where she finally catches on, like, oh, I mean, he doesn't hide it very uh hard at all that he knows. He's like, oh, yeah, Hurricane is Chris Bob's the Anchorman or something like that? Dad's a great guy. Bob's the anchor, man. He does that a couple of times. It's like, Dude, why don't you just say it instead of being this passive aggressive little child? I guess you are a child.

Yeah.

Remember, this 45 year old is supposed to be 15. It's so to me, like, I don't know. I can be pretty scared of confrontation. I uh am scared of confrontation. And so in my mind, if I do have to confront something, I have to practice in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. And then I think that's what Dawson does, and he comes out and he's just a passive aggressive tool that has all these prewritten scripts, not uh a hair Safari, blah, blah, blah. It's just so weird. Everything about him is weird. I do not understand why he is the main character of the show. I'll say that every episode, but yeah.

He cannot help but exclusively exist within movies. It's annoying.

What a fucking idiot.

At Capeside's Beach, Pacey is uh helping his newly introduced older brother, police officer Doug, put up warning signs to keep tourists away during the storm. Since this is the late 90s, Pacey playfully mocks his brother's taste in music to be evidence that he's gay, although Doug claims to be the straightest person he knows, like all cops do. In an exposition dump, Doug also reveals that he became a cop because their father is the Capeside Chief of police. Wow, does anyone out there have a chart for the family tree of Pacey because he has three sisters? A brother dad. Do we know his mom yet?

No, not yet.

I love how the way that they.

Had Doug tell us who their dad is.

You don't tell your brother. Our father, the Chief of Police of.

Capeside Casey, knows that your father is the Chief of police of Capeside, but.

That'S how we find out their dad.

Is chief of really lazy show. Don't tell unless it's awesome Creek, in which case just tell them the police.

Sticker on the car was great. Like the camera movement down when he shut the police.

Yeah, this scene introduces, I think my big problem with this episode, which is the ADR, is so bad. Oh, my God. The dubbing and specifically the matching of the ADR to uh their mouths makes it seem like we're watching a 70s cult film because everything is like a millisecond off and also has no feeling whatsoever. It's so cold and lifeless. So they're like, oh, dog, please. Uh i uh wanted to go have fun today, but Pacey, we have to put it, okay, what the fuck is going on here?

I think we've talked about it before, but if you film anything near the beach, it's a bad idea because it's just going to pick up so much audio level of ocean, and the ocean is so loud and the wind is going to be so loud. And I imagine that they had this episode written and they're like, okay, shooting schedule. We just have to wait for a day where it's going to be really horrible weather so we can convince audiences that there's a Hurricane and then it came and then they shot it and they went, oh, my God, we had no idea. Yeah, we can't do anything with this sound because it's so bad.

So bad.

The ADR rules, though.

Yeah, there are many clips, some of which um I captured of just such hilarious dubbing, so I want to thank them for it, but it also really took me out of the scene, like, every single time that it was happening.

Yeah, I thought I was watching an Italian movie in the 60s. It's so weird.

I was going to say it felt like the writers all of a sudden were like, oh, wait, people uh know nothing about PC. So we just got to throw all this in. It was just like, all within like, a second. It was like, okay, brother introduced dad chief of police. I thought that was very silly. Felt really just crammed in there.

Yeah, it did help kind of explain Pacey a little bit. He's bullied his dad's probably really strict.

And he's also above any kind of.

Discipline or uh action.

The only person who's going to he can just get away with whatever he wants, ie sleeping with his teacher. He knows there's no consequences. He knows that his dad's probably going to cover it up or do whatever he can to make sure that this doesn't become a big deal.

It's like if you were a Pokemon, the ultimate evolution level. It's like, not only are you a white guy in America, but your dad is the chief of police. It's a get out of jail free card. It's a license to kill. He can do whatever the hell he wants.

Totally.

Okay, one um thing. Just uh Pacey saying he has to catch up on his soaps. Thought that was funny.

That was what I was thinking. Yeah. So his interests, he likes.

Yes.

So pop operas.

Love that.

I don't think he does. I felt like he was being facetious and snarky towards his brother. I don't think he was actually being authentic in that.

But maybe.

Who knows? I think that would be a nice development for AC to actually have emotions.

Since we don't know anything about him. It'd be an interesting touch.

Also, that was funny. So they're putting up no swimming signs, right. But there's, like, tons of people with surfboards in the background. Is surfing a thing in Hurricane? Like, in her, during Hurricane, it whips up big waves.

Okay.

Yeah, for sure. So they have to be people. I mean, that definitely tracks for me because especially growing up in the Islands, whenever it's a stormy day, that's usually within reason, the best day to go to the beach, you're going to get good waves that are going to be bigger than normal. It might be choppy, which is the big concern. And then, of course, currents and all that stuff. So I can kind of go back and forth. But it made sense to me that there would be surfers out there trying to.

Yeah.

I also uh just was confused by Pacey, like, picking on his brother for potentially being gay. And at one point, PC says, like, hey, I'm on your side. So it's like, okay, then why are you giving him such a hard time about it?

All right, look, my brother did this exact type of shit to me. He would harass me about how gay I am and how I need to come out as gay and all this kind of stuff. Even did uh what we see Pacey do later where he is talking to Tamara and says, oh, yeah, Doug. Oh, no, he's totally gay. People would just assume that I was gay in my everyday life and then later find out I'm actually not gay.

I promise I'm not.

But um it sucks ass. Nobody should do that one. It's just homophobia. That's all it is. And it's completely unnecessary. It really sucks. I totally felt for Doug in this moment of being, like, grabbing him by the collar and being like, I am not gay. Like, stop. And the more that you push on this and then me getting upset in your mind, it confirms that I'm gay. In my mind, I'm just trying to set this straight. But this is also something that was very common in the think. Just like Cody mentioned in the scene synopsis, it would be commonplace for boys to tease and harass other boys about being gay in the 90s.

So I too was wondering why Kevin Williamson wrote this in and was thinking like, maybe it had something to do with his own family background. I happened to find um a little bit about his background, so I found his dad's obituary. Apparently he passed away. His father passed away in 2020, I think, but in Obituaries. And sometimes they have more family information on people than you can find anywhere else. And the way it was um written, it sounds like his brother is gay. Interesting because it listed his um brother as having a husband. So I kind of wonder if there.

Was like, by his brother, you mean his dad's brother? No. Okay.

Kevin Williamson's brother. Um so I wonder if there was something there that he wrote in that was related to his own relationship with his brother. He's also gay. I just wonder why would he, a gay man, put right this in. It's so homophobic.

Yeah. Mhm i think to be relevant to the times and also potentially to underscore, like, to make us all feel I think I really feel like it was written for laughs. That scene. Like, did you guys feel like it was written for laughs or did you feel like it was written for some kind of commentary?

Definitely laughs for me um because all the things that he's using are stereotypes. And we're supposed to like Pacey.

Right?

Like, Pacey, if you're an audience watching this in the late ninety s, one, you're going to think homophobia is funny because I was just like normal. It was and it was horrible. And two, we're supposed to uh I don't know how this is possible, but people liked Pacey at this point. So if Pacey, the lovable funny goofball, is making homophobic jokes about his brother and it's because of the music he likes, that means you're gay. It's supposed to be for laughs. I don't think that there'd be criticism of unless Kevin Williamson is aware of it. And also it could be something where maybe him and his brother, I mean, the armchair psychologist. But the idea of gay people mocking other people for being gay without even realizing that uh they're gay, it's something that could be revealed later. To themselves subconsciously being like, oh, that makes total sense.

All I can really say is this whole arc I could have just completely done without. Like, it was weirdly triggering for me. I had kind of forgotten about all of that stuff. And it um made me very happy that we're now in a time where men don't harass each other about being gay for non heteronormative masculine things that go against the masculine ideal. Uh yeah. It was really shitty and gross. I wish that I could understand why they did it. I wish that there was some commentary behind it, but I felt like there just wasn't.

That was the 90s. Plus, also later, for listeners that haven't watched this episode yet, Doug will pull out a gun. Uh and for uh all you film theorists out there, there's no more phallic of an image in cinema than a pistol. Rifle. Gun in general. So the fact that he's pulling out a gun and pointing it in Paisy's face to be like, Armar gay says a lot.

Yes. I felt like with this episode, they were like, they took a salt shaker of toxic masculinity, and we're like, let's sprinkle some. And then just the cap came off and it was just like, toxic masculinity.

Yeah.

We head to Joey's sister's place, where Betsy and Bodie are in a heated discussion on whether their unborn baby should be circumcised or not. Joey suggests that they should go to Dawson's place to wait out the storm in case it gets worse than they've.

Prepped for uncomfy scene. I'm just going to go ahead. Let's um all listen to this. Don't change the subject. This kid is being circumcised.

No, he's not.

Very strange that Bodie is the one that wants really wants this.

Yeah.

Why is that strange?

Well, I feel like um it's more prevalent and popular nowadays. Men are now like, hey, this is genital mutilation without our consent because we were babies. This um should not be happening. I feel like it's broader now. But even that's what Bessie's argument is, too, right?

Yeah. I did a little research on the history of anti circumcision movements, and there was a movement, like, between the so during that time, there um were organizations around the world that were against it, and there were um activists that created websites and put out questionnaires to men who are circumcised and asking. And apparently men were saying, like, yes, this has affected us psychologically. I don't know.

I thought it was an interesting addition to this episode because it really did.

This is also a thread that goes nowhere. No, I mean one of many in this episode that goes nowhere. It's either Kevin Williamson is trying to put this topic out there, or it's a writer's room that goes, I imagine this writer uh room was a lot of men and young men that are like, they've never been in a serious relationship or they've never been married or anything, and they don't have children. So they're like, what do you think married couples or people having a baby argue about before a baby comes? Dude, Dick stuff, circumcision stuff like, let's put that in. That could be something.

But then we later find out that they don't even know who it's going to get.

I think the next episode is when she's going to have the baby. So maybe there's something. I don't know, but yeah, I thought that was super funny, that they don't even know why this argument. Yeah.

At least be smart about it. Make it about the baby's name or something.

Totally.

And then it would be cute because it's like, if it's a boy, it should be Joe. And then she's like, well, it's a girl, Joey. And then they're like, look at that. There could be something there. But instead they're talking about circumcision on television. So weird.

Yeah. Bessie was rocking some overalls uh of that. Side note on that.

Very fashionable.

Yes. And comfortable for a pregnant person.

Yeah. Again, also, despite this uh very strange interactions these characters are having, I love Bodie bodies. He has a lot of charisma, and I want to see more out of him. So I hope he does become more of a regular character.

Seems like he's becoming mhm one. But I agree he brings a lot of life to the scenes that he's in.

Yes.

Back at the Beach, Pacey finds his way to Tamara's house. He approaches her on her porch for as much, but she pushes him away just in time. As Doug rounds the corner. Pacey is visibly infuriated as Doug continues to belittle him while uh also flirting with tomorrow.

So there is a line between Ms. Jacobs and Doug where she says, I really don't do well in bad weather. And he says, we'll have to do something about that. And I was like, okay, that's two times that we have people insinuating sex.

In response to the storm actually clipped that. Let's take a listen. I didn't catch Doug's response, but I just uh remember this show has a thing uh with bad screams. So let's just take a listen to Tamara's response to this Thundercrack. Uh listen closely, Tamara.

I'm sorry.

I hate storms.

I really don't do well at all with that weather. This is so badly acted. It was like, oh, there's uh two men between me. Oh, I'm so scared. Keep me safe. I hated this whole thing.

And I imagine when they're furious, there's probably, like, horrible weather. Actually, under 50 degrees. They're all freezing. This is probably not the first takes. They're miserable.

Yeah.

Okay. It's bad weather. I don't want it by weather.

Uh okay, bye. Yeah. There's another little clip here. After she says that, um before she turns back to go inside. I didn't capture the audio here because it didn't translate, but she goes and then just turns and walks in and I don't know what.

Oh, I think it's because Doug says that thing where he's like, we'll have.

To do something about that. Awkwardly, like, did anybody else feel like Pacey and Tomorrow had just had a fight when he walks up because she's.

Like, no, she's doing that because Doug is there and she doesn't want Doug to see Pacey interacting in a way that he's going to like. He didn't know that.

To me. It didn't translate as play it cool. Your brother is around the corner. It played as like there was something else that we didn't see. They had cut. I don't know.

Interesting.

I see what you mean. But I feel like their arc for this entire episode is what she says near the end where she goes, It's too dangerous. And Pacey just lolly gagging through life. I'm going to make out with you now. No, officer, Doug's around the corner. And also, I love that Pacey Daddy is the chief of police. Doug is a police officer. During this storm. What does uh a police officer do? He's just going to hang out at a Citizen's house and try to.

Yeah, he was, like, walking by and he just saw her approach on the porch.

If you're to serve and protect, which they don't do during a storm, why is uh he just go, yeah, I'm going to go play Monopoly with this hot lady.

I know.

Great question.

Yeah.

At Dawson's place, Mr. O'leary is helping Jen's grandma into the house while Jen stays behind to talk to Dawson as he's prepping for the storm. Dawson is still acting cold toward her, as Jen had revealed last episode that she's not a Virgin, as he had once thought. Jen tries to get him to talk about it, but he still ignores her like a big, stupid baby.

So, like, Mr. Leary is like, okay, we got to go get Graham's and Jen to come over here. And Graham is like, not down. She's just like, if the Lord wants to blow my house away, people still be it. What, like, you don't want to try and be safe? I don't know.

It's like the opposite of tomorrow.

Well, keep me safe. It's really weird.

Well, she's weathered more storms than you've lived through, so that means that this one can't be dangerous.

I guess we also learn here that Grandpa is back uh in the hospital.

Yes, it's convenient.

Yeah, exactly.

This is where my theory comes back into play. Look, he's not in the hospital. That's a convenient cover. He's actually out hunting vampires. He's keeping the whole town safe because, as Cody rightly pointed out, um Hurricanes are the perfect time for vampires to wage war on the poor mortals that are living there. So Grants is actually out. He's got his steak vest ready to go. All those rolling pins are, like, in a bandolier across his body. And there's a reason um that we don't see him. It's because he's out in the shadows protecting. He's the Batman of Capeside. I love that.

Outside of this true narrative of the vampire show, I mean, it is interesting that she does not think there's anything dangerous about the storm. In the end, she's correct. The storm lasts 20 seconds. But for her to just be so stoic uh about how she's going to be okay during the storm. She's a thousand years old, right? Jen's not going to protect her.

She's stubborn.

Yeah.

Sometimes when there's big storms, you hear about people who don't want to leave their home, like, people who are older. They're kind of set in their ways and they don't want to leave their home. They want to stay there and they'll survive. That's kind of what I got. They just have that, like, so long that.

What am I saying? We just went through the pandemic, and I think every Boomer on Earth was like, yeah, I'm not going to get that right.

I did love that moment between Jen um and Mr. Manmy where Jen says, oh, the Lord Fax the uh house, about the store, whatever. And then Mr. Mandy looks at Jen and they kind of have a little shared laugh, right?

Yeah. He's looking like he thought it was funny. But then Graham looks at him and he's like, oh, I better straighten up. That wasn't funny at all. Don't joke about the God.

You're right, Jen. Your grandma is insane. Inside Dawson's, the TV is blaring about the storm's ongoing rampage. While Mr. Leary introduces Bessy and Bodie to Jen's grandma, she refuses to meet their gaze, mentioning that their pregnancy is outside of wedlock. Graham doubles down on her awfulness by then, refusing to acknowledge Bodie since he's a black man.

Wait, what did she say?

We've met you're, Bessie, Joey's unmarried sister.

But she doesn't mean about him being black, right?

No, but it's very close.

Yeah, I think it's subtext.

Yes. The comment that she makes about the kids.

She says some stuff later, but not.

Like, more directed towards race. This part is right.

Yeah.

It's more about them not being married.

Yeah. Which I didn't really realize before. Like, first the episodes that they were married. Doesn't matter what a bag of shit.

Yeah.

This character already sucked enough, and they're just, like, throwing more stuff.

But at the same time, it felt like quite a twist to inject into this character. We've seen that she's kind of, like obnoxious, and I guess it tracks because she's old. So by film tropes, she has to be out of touch and behind the times. But it was also like, why did we have to put this one in here? I guess just for the conflict. That is the why. Again, back to earlier on, it's just kind of like a little lazy feeling to me.

Super lazy.

Yeah.

Because it's like the first thing that would come to your mind if you're building this episode and you're breaking the story and you go, okay, so why do you think these characters are going to have conflict? It's like, oh, we should make the old lady be racist. I don't know. Low hanging fruit.

Also, maybe they want us to not like grams because maybe her trajectory is, I don't know, there's going to be some growth or who knows?

The other side of the grams coin is Jen. And I think that we're always like Jen more than Graham, so they have to make sure the grams is.

Yeah. I mean, uh we're jumping ahead here, but with Graham's doing this, we as an audience are like, she sucks. She doubles down on her racism later throughout the episode. But then the last time that we see this character, it's her providing really good wisdom and then every thread is dropped. So she's like the moral character of this episode, which is so backwards.

Totally.

This is where the episode started to um just get into like, okay, this is getting psychotic.

We're getting a little while.

We're definitely just like, okay, let's make this more. Let's make this more. How much crazier can we get?

Yeah, this episode definitely felt like just a roller coaster going up the whole time.

The whole time. It really isn't until, like, the last click. It isn't until, like, the last commercial break that we start to get some release of the tension, which is kind of awesome for a TV show. I felt like, well, over on the.

Staircase, Mrs. Leary is openly flirting with Bob over the telephone as Dawson watches from the upstairs Banister above her. When she hangs up, he approaches her, saying she should plop a big red eye on her chest like in The Scarlet Letter.

I caught this clip that I'm going to play for us here. How in the fuck has she not been caught? If this is the kind of behavior that she's doing in her own home on a landline um that is shared across the house, don't you all remember when we had home phones?

Yes.

And anybody could be on the line with you listening to your shit. So listen to this and just remember that feeling of the paranoia of being on a phone call. Would you do this?

Well, you just be careful out there and like, you back in one piece. Okay, I'll call you back.

And the slowmo up to Dawson in the background.

Just as this is happening in the episode. This is one of my favorite things from the uh eighty s and ninety s is the stutter uh shot. Like pseudoslomo, but it's in real time. It's just like they're blocking out every second and third frame. So you get this, like just as so 90s. It reminds me of The Crow. And like, every action movie from the mid 90s had this exact same shot. And to have it be used in this setting where Dawson is just like, my mommy is cheating on my Daddy. It is just great.

Aside from the cheating thing. And right before the clip that you just played, we do find out that she is an awardwinning news commentator. She's uh won the local Emmy and the, quote, Goldendesk Award. Uh and she has more plaques and trophies than soft Bee Bob.

Yeah. Unsurprising because he sucks.

Yeah.

I definitely get the feeling that of their anchor relationship, she actually does the hard work. And Bob is just a suave, handsome man on the show.

That's kind of what I probably got.

A voice that people like to listen to.

Right? Yeah.

I thought um obviously, Gail is just being so obvious on the phone. But it's like, especially after earlier in the day, it was very clear that your son knows what's going on.

Yeah. And you're going to do this shit.

Yes. It made me really angry, but yeah. Also, it's just like the memories of there being a phone call on the landline and then me, like, secretly anyone could be listening.

That was one of my favorite things to do as a kid. I used to buy a home phone in my bedroom, and I kept it on the other side of my bed, between my bed and the wall, so that I could just lay in bed and listen to people's phone calls, which is probably a horrible thing to admit now. But goddamn, I used to love that. Like, silently lifting up the receiver so that you're still hung up until you get the phone in your ear and then you gently lift it so there's no click. I feel like everybody has these strategies. They remember this. There's something about being in the nineties. That was the thing. Like, I used to listen to my brother talking on the phone with all his friends. And, like, that was how I learned about cool shit that older kids knew about. So I loved this scene, that specific part of the scene, that feeling, it brought me back. But how bold. It's just so wild. Nobody would do this. We already seen her do this. Remember in the previous scene where she's in the closet and that's when Joey saw her?

Yeah.

She was like, she already caught then.

She wants I don't understand.

Yeah, totally. I totally think she does, because there's no reason she's doing this.

Exactly.

She has no reason.

Yes. How wild.

Yes.

Uh time for our commercial break, our very first commercial break of the day. All right. We uh will see you on the other side.

And we're back. So Dawson is storming away from his mom after their confrontation, but she corners him and tries to explain why she's having an affair with Bob. After an obnoxious grammar fixed from Dawson during uh her monologue, he waves her away excuses and runs away from her.

First off, this is some shit my mom does literally all the time. The grammar fix specifically with me and I all the time she does it. And it makes me very upset that wasn't obnoxious that Dawson uh is doing it. I was like, oh, God.

When Dawson's, like, referring uh to his dad telling his mum it has a name, husband, spouse, mate. Better half. He didn't even say his name. It was like he was saying character types. That's so Dawson exactly to him.

That's one and the same. Yeah.

It's also just the most daunting shit ever for him because, you know, that he premeditated that he wanted to drop this, like, fat Scarlet letter line that he had. And earlier he had the stupid lines about Harrison Ford and stuff like that. So, uh you know that when he's run out of lines, all he could do is run away. He's like, oh, shit.

Okay.

So bye. And yeah, this is what we get him not um knowing how to have a human conversation with someone if he doesn't have a cool, witty line to say.

And isn't this where his mom tries to say, There are reasons for this? Don't jump to conclusions. There are reasons behind this, which we later come to find out that her reason is that she doesn't have a reasonable reason. There is no reason for this. She's actually just kind of caught red handed here. And I think it's just like saying shit.

Yeah.

And I thought even though Dawson is still being very obnoxious in the scene, I was kind of proud of him for being like, I don't know, kind of standing up for himself and that it's, like, very valid that it's like, yeah, you're my mom. You shouldn't be telling me the reason. Like, I'm your son. Go fucking figure it out with my dad.

I'm not the person you need to be talking to right now is the one insightful moment in Dawson's probably entire life where he's justifiably uh being like, look, no, don't talk to me. Talk to somebody else.

I'm not the one here that's in this situation with you.

The Dawson bursts into his room and slams the door, finding Jen hanging out, awaiting him. He vents about his mom's affair, but when uh Jen tries to see Mrs. Leary's side of things, Dawson lumps her and his mom together as people who have been with multiple partners. Jen rightfully gives him an earful on how she nor anyone else is a perfect, idyllic movie character and runs out of the room.

Yeah. You guys want to hear Jen ripping Dawson? Yes, please. Uh i love this. I rewounded. I wanted to watch it again because finally somebody stands up to Dawson and says what we've all been thinking for this entire series. Let's take a listen.

We're not all as pious as you, Dawson. Some of us aren't imaginary characters in a Spielberg film. Some of us live in reality.

The crowd. Yeah. My favorite thing about that is I feel like when Dawson, he's like, I just can't get anything wrong. He throws himself on the bed, but I feel like James Vanderbik was like, Ow. Because he's like, and it's a TV.

Show, so, you know, it's not a real bet. It's probably just like a bunch of tables with some sheep over. It probably did hurt.

Really bad.

Yeah, but I mean, fucking fact, right? Like, Jen is just the coolest character in the entire show for finally calling him out on his bullshit. And also, we're not all imaginary characters in the Spielberg film. That is exactly what fantasy Dawson lives in, that he is in some fantasy Spielberg film that centered on him. And I loved that. We finally got him getting set straight.

And this is why we saw the Spielberg portrait get knocked down at the beginning.

His fantasy is being challenged.

Uh there's also some line, I think, where Dawson says something about his parents bumping like rabbits.

Yeah, they bump like rabbits every day. And he thought that that would be enough, but apparently it's not. I'm glad that we get this because this sets up the later conversation that he and Jen have where Jen is like sex does not equal happiness, but to Dawson it does equal happiness and um monogamy equals happiness. And all of this is now really challenging my worldview.

We've touched on it before, but sometimes I think Kevin Williamson is smart and the show is about how people are too stupid to understand the things that they watch. And he's using gossip like this character to completely encompass that. Like the idea of people to watch a lot of romantic comedies and think like, oh, my life should be like that. That's what I'm looking for in a partner. That's what Dawson is definitely. What a big fat dummy. Also, props to Michelle Williams in the scene. It is so clear why she is the one that became a very prestigious actor out of the core for she is such an incredible artist. And uh given the material that is Dawson's Creek, she kills it every time when she has these really great monologues. She's so good.

She is. Yeah, I loved her in this episode in general. I thought she was really great.

Give her the script to Jingle All the Way and she would give an Oscarworthy performance.

Yeah, she's killing it.

So while Dawson falls to his bed in frustration, he hears a sneeze come from his closet. Joey emerges, having been there the whole time, and tries to reminisce about when they were younger and would reenact the film Jaws in his closet. Dawson isn't in the mood and Joey figures he's still mad about not telling him that she knew about his mom's affair. Before leaving the room, Joey tells Dawson he should be happy, that at the very least he still has a mom.

I noticed a funny you can't do anything here. So he comes into uh the room. When he enters the room in the previous scene, Jen was already sitting in there, meaning Joey had been in there for how long. Jen was just hanging out. Also, in a lot of the shots, the closets, like open. So I thought that was kind of funny. And then when Jen leaves in the closet are suddenly closed. And then of course he finds Joey, so I thought that was funny, but she had to be in there for quite a long time.

And this is, I think, the first mhm instance that we see Joey in the exact same position. It will happen two more times.

I think this is where she says that she's regressing. That's why she's in the closet. She's regressing back to being a child, which is kind of sad that she's just like, she wants to feel safe, she wants to feel secure. And the way that she does that is by apparently hiding in his closet with his stinky clothes and all that stuff. To your point, how long was she just sitting in there with these musty smelly clothes while Jen is just also sitting in the room?

It's like, why did they hang out?

Yeah, well, I guess I can't come out now.

Joey and Dawson have been friends since they were children, so it's probably normal for Joey to be in the closet. So she knows. Yeah, that's normal for Dawson. But Jen being new to this situation. I imagine Joey sees Jen, comes in and goes, If I say anything, she'll never talk to me. Oh, you think I'm insane? Or she thinks there's already kind of like a tension thing and she reads that. And so she's like, If Jen thinks that me and Dawson are, like, doing anything sexual, that will ruin the relationship.

Good point. Yeah.

Or the show was just insane.

Like I said before, I think the show is insane. And evidence of that is when Joey gets upset at Dawson about how he doesn't want to play Jaws in the closet with her. And she says, oh, yeah, I guess this is also on the list of things that we're too old to do now, like sleeping over. Wait, didn't you propose that we're too old to spend the night now? So wait, why is this Dawson's fault?

Right? She kind of turned that around. It was weird.

So the Leeries are watching the Hurricane coverage with Joey Bodie Essie and Graham. Bodie is trying to give Graham some advice on how to make a dish she serves better, but she insists that her recipe is already perfect. Mr. Leery States how he hopes Bob makes it out of the Hurricane. Okay. And Joey leaves the room in disgust, knowing of Mrs. Leary's indiscretion.

Yeah. I mean, look, I don't want to defend Graham's in any way, shape, or form, but if I made a dish for people and somebody was like, hey, you could make this way better with this stuff. I'd be like, Excuse me, what the fuck is your problem?

Uh i thought Bodie was nice about it. I don't know. I'm on Bodie side here because he was like, oh, yeah, you could add a little Rosemary and salt. That would punch it up a bit. This was terrible.

Okay, so next time you make a dish, I'll be sure to give you a little piece of feedback on how.

You can do it better. No, the thing is, he's in the culinary arts, right?

Yeah, but she's an old lady and a homemaker, so she knows more about the culinary artist than he does.

Yeah, it was an interesting interaction.

Again, I don't want to defend her. She clearly takes offense to him giving her feedback because of her own hang ups, not because of anything else. So it is indefensible.

I do want to know what the recipe was. I mean, it must have been pretty bland for him to suggest something as simple as Rosemary and pepper.

All you have to do is put this chicken over a fire and then it's going to taste good. He's like, Actually, we want seasoning.

I mean, she went through World War II where they weren't even allowed to have seasoning rations. Baby, they had a chicken and they just threw it in the oven and that's that.

I'm going to shake this empty tin can over the chicken, and that'll just.

The thought of seasoning.

Maybe I'll add some lard.

It was my mother's recipe. We took a chicken and then we ate it.

We call it dream chicken because you really dream about all the flavors you'd like to have.

I like it when it's dry.

We could make a Dawson's Creek cookbook um Mac and cheese.

Wet Mac and cheese, sticky chowder, and then raw oysters as well as unseasoned.

I wonder if there's, like a boatie recipe book. That'd be cool.

It probably is now, actually. Yeah. Has anyone looked up any merch for Dawson's Creek?

Oh, you can find the replica of his necklace that he uh always wears. Like that black Pearl.

Wow.

I know. I almost did.

Whoever is dressing up as doctors Halloween.

Yes.

I've always wanted a nice Pearl necklace to compliment my shark's teeth and my pookashelle, so that'll go well with my general look.

We should all go to the Gap later and get some cargo shorts. Joey is hanging out on the stairs in the entryway moping, and Mrs. Leary comes out to join her. Gail practically admits that all of this has gotten out of hand and says that she's planning on ending the affair with soft Bee Bob.

I thought it was weird. It was like a few scenes ago where she's having this intimate conversation on the phone with Bob where she's making kissing noises and then, yeah, like, Dawson knows, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, okay, amending it. I don't know. It's just like we don't really see how she got there, I guess.

Yeah. And we also have no perception of how long it's been either. To your point, it's difficult to understand why she has decided to end it or if she's being Truthful in her decision to now end it. At my first watch, I kind of assumed that she was just trying to like a peas.

Yeah.

I don't know. I was really confused by this, but what I was more confused by was, what is the F word that Joey is referring to?

Well, so Gail goes, what I think it was, I guess I fucked up. This is really fucked up. And then she says, I guess every sentence that comes to mind ends with the F word, right? No, she's saying that you aren't an example. Just stick with the F uh word. That's who you are.

It's pretty cold blooded.

Yeah, well, she's just telling her how it is.

I guess my vibe was that it was kind of, like, playful from Joey mom, Gail. Mrs. Manmy uh is like, wanting to set a good example, and Joe is like, okay, well, you're not. It felt like they were trying to be, like, chummy.

Yeah, but kind of a strange pivot, if that is the case, that now we're being chummy when she just was trying to shit all over her downstairs in front of her husband, she's been pretty adamant that she is a fuck up and that she's disappointed in her. And now she's like, but it's okay.

Get it? But this is the first time that we've seen Gail be, like, kind of own up to that she's fucked up and that she wants to end it. So I think Joey maybe is having a little bit of sympathy towards her.

Uh i think it's completely valid for anyone to be confused by this because the motivations are so all over the place and these characters are changing who they are every 30 seconds. Yeah. Every other scene, a character is different. Remember it was like, five scenes ago where Gail is on the phone being like, yeah, uh she's going to bring up them. Who uh cares? Who cares? These characters are not people.

No. Uh all we know is that vampires are real and that thank God Grandpa is here keeping us all safe.

Yeah.

What do you think Grandpa is doing during the whole week?

He's staking some fucking blood suckers out there. Yes. There's a swamp thing that's walking down the main street. Mothman probably making an appearance, too. He's busy.

Back at tomorrow's, um Pacey and Doug are having a pissing contest on who's the most masculine to impress tomorrow. There's a loud crash outside, and Doug goes to investigate while he's gone. Pacey, of course, tries to make a move on tomorrow. And in their disgusting playful flirtation, they fall on top of each other in intimate display just as Officer Doug walks into the room.

Okay, my first thing is like, um Doug, there's a crash, and he's like, I'm going to go investigate. He's like, this is my job. And he puts um the jacket over his head and it's like, I don't know, just so funny. Like, your job is.

Yeah, I thought it was silly. Your job is protecting people in a storm.

Yeah, well, okay, you guys know what that crashes, right?

I know what you were going to say.

Vampire is a vampire attack on Ms. Jacob's neighbors while he was out there.

Tamara says something um about not with your badge, brother right outside. Quick reminder, this is a felony. So this is the first time she's actually outright said, like, this is illegal.

When I was watching that, it prompted me to look up how old they were during the filming. Joshua Jackson was 19 and um Leanne Hunley was 43. Around 43.

Believable romance for sure.

Also, Doug strange that Doug is not um picking up on any of these hints that Pacey is dropping that he is in a romantic relationship with her. He is very blind to it. I mean, is it just the hateful blindness that he has for his brother that is keeping him from realizing that they are an item?

Yeah, I don't know.

I didn't think it was that up to this point until he comes in uh where he's on top of her that there was intimacy between them.

Um right. I think he's just taking it as like he's fighting with his brother up to this point.

I also was really curious what they were eating um because it looked like she just had a big old plate of mustard on her chest.

They definitely just squirted, like ketchup and mustard all over her sweater because the sandwich. But it's like sandwiches, like, sitting nicely on top. And then there's like a big pile of ketchup mustard. They took the squirt bottle.

So it's so funny.

Let's put ourselves in the role of Doug here and try to figure out what he thinks he just uh walked in on. How could he possibly not come to any kind of conclusions that something happened? Like, in what world would my younger brother end up on top of this woman with all the food on top of her? There's no other conclusion to draw. Like, how doesn't he see something is going on here? To your point, Stella?

I don't know. But at the same time, it's like so bizarre that she's laying on the ground with a bunch of food and condiments on top of her that I don't know. It'd be weird to be like, oh, yeah, this is um an intimate sexual relationship.

Well, I think I actually just found my own solution here, which is if he runs outside because there's a vampire attack when he hears his crash. Now he hears uh a crash inside and he's like, oh, fuck, the vampires got inside the house. I got to get in there and save and then he just sees it's. A bunch of ketchup and mustard, that's all. It was a catchup of mustard attack.

It would have been way better if he goes and sees the ketchup and he goes, oh, my God, Haycee is a vampire.

I want to suck your blood. Yeah.

Their dad chief of police.

Yes.

Twilight policeman. Charlie Bella Swan's father do you think this is?

Oh, and she's from Forks all coming together. Yeah, he's got a Dawson's Creek Twilight verse that way.

We don't know much about Paisley's family.

Oh, my God. Perhaps one of his three sisters is Bella Swan.

Oh, interesting. Swans like creeks. Swans like water. They float, they swim on the water. The Swans from Forks came to Cape Side all the way across the country.

So Dawson approaches his dad, who's alone working on his aquatic themed restaurant, Thuck, seemingly about to tell him about Gayle's affair with Bob, when Gail herself enters the room and spills the beans with the bizarre monologue on how she never ended up like the TV reporters she always wanted to be. When the punchline of her affair finally arrives, the electricity cuts out.

What the fuck kind of, like, explanation was she trying to give? When she starts off, she's like, basically, Woe is me. My life didn't turn out as planned, so it's okay. And then she just drops this shell on him, which I've clipped. And I would like to play for us if we'd all like to hear this is after. Mr. Leary is uh like, okay, what are you trying to say here? I'm not following you. And Mrs. Leary gives him this.

What I am saying is, for the past two months, for the past 62 days, every time that I've come home late, every time that I've made an excuse to leave this house, every time that I haven't been with you, I have been with someone else. Another man having sex with another man.

Wow.

Can you play the Gen scream now in reaction?

Oh, yes, I can. I just muted everything.

So.

Uh.

That'S not what I thought it was, but here it is.

Uh.

Okay, so every time that she has left the house, she has been having sex with another man every single time.

62 days.

That's impressive.

Frankly, 62 days of Mitch going, that's weird.

Yeah, strange, but uh it's so silly.

Because later she mentions that every day of her life, her husband satisfies her. So every day of her life, but also double duty. For the past 62 days, she's been.

Maybe Gail is a sex addict.

That's what Cody said last episode. And it's really feeling like that has to be one of, if not the only, answers for her behavior.

Yeah.

I mean, she later really breaks down um the why of it, which is like the antiancer of there is no reason why, but this all has to be masking that she's a sex addict because there's no really rhyme or reason for it. It seems like proto American beauty with the Net Bennings character of being like, I was a suburban wife and my life was extremely boring. And before 911, this is all we did. So it's like, of course I'm going to have an affair. But, yeah, it really doesn't add up to anything.

Let's just take a moment to admire that this might be the last time we see the kelp, and it's glory because we got a good shot of it. But we did.

When we walk in and see Mr. Um leary working on The Kelp. Uh what he says to Dawson is that once The Kelp takes off, um there's going to be a whole chain of Leary family restaurants from coast to coast.

Yes, baby.

Yes.

And I just thought that was very bizarre. So is his plan to open. He's starting off with a chain like.

He'S just like coast to coast.

We're having aquatic themed restaurants all across the nation.

Aquatic themed restaurants are going to work so well in Iowa.

And with that intense of a theme, too. I mean, it's like the Rainforest Cafe. Also, it reminded me, did anyone else do diorama um projects in elementary, middle school? That whole set up brought uh me back to creating all these little um dioramas before this.

Did we know that the restaurant was called The Kelp?

No. This is the first time, which is.

Not a very good name.

Terrible.

Got to say, what is Kelp? Stinky, smelly washes up on the beach. It's trash. It's pretty cool in the ocean, um but everywhere else, it's just like slimy, stinky stuff. And I don't want to eat food that's slimy and stinky. So I think he needs to take that one back to the drawing board, which is fortunate because he just destroyed his entire vision for his.

And again, just the fact that it's named The Kelp and how gross of a name that is is just another reason that I think this writers group, it's all first draft. They're like, yeah, the Kelp. Whatever. Let's not think about it. Move forward.

Okay. And then also, I um just couldn't believe that Gail was um insisting that Dawson stay for this confession.

Too.

Yeah, I understand. I don't know. I feel like on some level, maybe it would make sense to have a family conversation at some point, but to have that level of her saying every day that the last 62 days that I've been apart from you, I've been fucking this uh other dude in front of your son. That's so traumatic for him. It made me really mad. I was like, Dude, that's fucked up.

But again, this isn't the real world. This is the hypersexualized world. This is Sin City, baby, where this is probably normal for every character that lives in this universe. The Dawsons Creek world is just filled with people that only talk about sex.

And isn't it interesting that in a few scenes we get Jen confronting hyper sexualization, which I will say for when we get there. But isn't it interesting?

So interesting.

Very interesting.

Cody, tell me it's interesting.

On an interesting out of interesting, I'm going to say it's pretty interesting.

Well, any other notes here? Okay, cool. Let's take it to our second commercial break. We will catch you on the flip side.

We come back to Mitch, who looks as though his microchip has totally fried. He urges Dawson to get more batteries and ushers him out of the room. While scrambling around for a Lantern, Gail starts crying and tries to get something out of Mitch, who in turn shines his flashlight right in her face and exclaims, you don't get to cry like some Lynchy nightmare. He leaves and human garbage um can. Graham enters to see if Gail is okay, to which she says, everything's fine.

Yeah. This is where I felt like the episode was about to turn into a horror movie. And we're going to see, like, the power has been cut. It's not actually that it went out. It's that it's been cut. And what's that like? The fire acts in the emergency uh display has been removed. Oh, no. I wonder who has it. It felt like it was going to take a wild turn, and it did. But then just as quickly as it takes that turn, it's just like, let's pretend that didn't happen. We don't have a madman in the house right now wildly pointing flashlights in people's faces.

Yes, it's really disturbing. I know that going into this show, the one thing I knew was that one of the episodes was going to be like a horror movie. It was like a special, fun Halloween episode. So for a second I thought, is this going to be it? Is this where Mitch goes on a killing spree?

Yes, it felt like it. It felt like we were about to get that. I was a little bit scared. He actually was scary.

Uh this is like when you're talking about that. We see different sides of characters that we did. It was just like a 180 for him. He becomes super aggressive and shoves this flashlight in her face like, what the heck?

Yeah.

He physically threatens her late. I guess it's early in the show. This is the fifth episode, but every moment that we've seen of Mitch before, this has been horny, fun. Dad, like nothing about him has screamed maniac or possible murderer. Back at Tamara's uh place, she blames her clumsiness for her and Pacey having fallen in such an intimate position earlier that day, she proposes to play some games to wait out the storm, and Doug uh uses this as an opportunity to play the if game, which is not a game that exists, during which Tamara explains why she moved the Capeside as a means to leave her ex husband in New York. Pacey, once again wanting to make his brother appear gay using dated stereotypes, asks Doug, What Broadway musical would he star in? If possible, Doug uh chooses a character from West Side Story, which he and Tamara bond over infuriating sad 15 year old Pacey.

Yes, yet again, I felt very triggered because I was in musical theater as a kid, uh and that was very much used as evidence for why I was gay, despite the fact that I was not gay. And that was used to tease and mock me for a long time. So I was like, I get it, Doug. I get it. You're allowed to like West Side Story and still be a uh straight man. It doesn't actually have any impact on you. And I would say choose a better um role to act out. In your dreams, though. Tony from West Side Story, uh I guess the 90s. But, like, come on, there's better stuff. There's better stuff for you to do.

I mean, I also think this is a product of the writer's room, having never seen a Broadway music or anything. Yeah, uh.

Okay, not that one. Rent. No, let's not do that one um either. Okay. West Side Story.

It's been so much thicker. If Doug was like, I um always wanted to be Mr. Mustafa.

Yeah, I would have loved to see them bond over that. And then maybe we get a scene of them in, like, cat makeup. Oh, my God, yes.

Tomorrow is like, I'm such a rum Tum Tugger.

Oh, man, I wish. This is what we need. Can we get a fan cut of that, please?

Uh what's the if game?

The if game is disgusting.

Okay, he just made it up to get to know Tampa tomorrow, and it.

Was also described in the most horny way possible. It's like, I'm going to ask you a question, and it's going to be like, if you could only do one thing for the rest of your life, it was just like, why are you so horned up talking about this? And also in front of your little brother? This is not the place to be laying on the moves. It felt like he was doing it to annoy Pacey, as if maybe he could tell that Pacey liked his teacher, which I'm probably really reading too far in, but I just felt like he was um so creepy in this moment, the way that he was portraying this game.

To be fair, we don't know Doug too well. This could be just the way that he regularly describes games before. I mean, in the deleted scene, did you guys catch the deleted scene on YouTube when he's describing how to play Monopoly?

No.

What?

Yeah, you didn't see it?

Are you joking?

No.

You play a greedy cat and you're just buying up the market, baby.

Look at that fat stick in your pocket, baby.

I bet you want to get that hotel.

It felt to me when you're in a group, we're, like, in a group and people don't know each other, and they're like, let's say, never have I ever. That's how it felt. It was like, let's play this ridiculous made up game that I don't know.

I don't want to play the F game ever.

Well, sorry. I planned out your birthday party, and.

That'S what we're doing.

Oh, Dang. All right, my house.

Also, Doug calls Pacey a clumsy idiot, pinhead imbecile, and a family embarrassment. So uh more to explain why Pacey is the way he is, because he is constantly bullied.

I hope we find out that his three sisters are also coffee.

Oh, that would be great.

They used them as target practice.

Every scene at Tammy's house uh really feels like it's a deleted scene from Twin Peaks. I don't know if anybody else got that vibe.

It's super weird.

Yeah. Did you guys notice her furniture?

No, no.

Seashell pattern. Couch and chairs, two chairs and an entire couch uh that's like white with big, beautiful seashells all over it.

Ridiculous resort life.

Yeah. And curtains. Like full length curtains, ceiling to floor. Match the couch and the two chairs. And it's all seashell pattern.

The first time we ever saw her place, I think. Didn't we talk about how the Wicker furniture? Yeah. Everything just feels like a really cheap hotel on the beach. And I uh mean, it's her entire house. It's just one aesthetic, right. She had to have bonded, furnished.

It's got to be.

It seems like a vacation house, but that's like her home.

We also find out in this scene tomorrow is from New York. I don't know if we knew that um before and that she was married has the dysfunctional accident.

So there's the episode where Joey had fallen in love uh with that strange boy that was coming through town. And his parents are rich and they're going around buying antiques. We don't think that maybe his dad is Tamara's ex husband. Remarried?

Totally.

We never meet his parents. Interesting.

At Dawson's, Bodie mhm and Bessie are still having their argument over their unborn child, Circumcision. Bessie says that at this point, they don't even know what the sex of their kiddo is. In Graham's, with her Hound dog racist nose smelling blood in the air, excitedly uses this as her in to say that people won't even know if their child will be black or white and that she objects to them being too young to have kids and that their child will be labeled as different. Bessie says that no matter what, their kid will be loved wholeheartedly.

Please tell me you got the sound clip. Was it bodies saying a million babies are circumcised every year?

Uh let's listen to that uh right now. A million babies are circumcised every year.

It's a human rights issue. It's a harsh and barbaric example of child abuse.

Yeah. Is that how the scene starts?

Yeah, it's hard. Cut to that mid sentence. And also what I love about this is Bodie and Bessy are talking about that where or maybe two steps behind the couch in the living room, just in the middle of the house.

Everybody have a little slice of this conversation.

Why not?

And it's like a very intimate conversation that you should be having.

It's been carrying out through the whole day, like from when they were at their house all the way through the day.

Yeah. Now is the right time to talk.

About do you think we should have our child circumcised?

Honey?

I don't know. It kind of feels a little bit strange. Hey, what do you think? Racist grandma uh who lives next door.

Remember the 6th sense? How the kind of ghost logic they have in that movie is that ghosts are kind of just like reenacting a really intense moment of their lives, regardless of who is around them. I feel like everyone in Dawson Creek is dead and they're all just like doing these things without a care in the world of who's around them, everyone is haunting each other.

You know, I like this um idea.

I love vampires and I love ghosts. But you know what? We never see vampire ghosts.

Oh, shit. That's a good point.

Did you get the clip of Bodie calling Graham's out?

No, actually, I should say I did, but I ended up trimming it back because I ended up clipping basically every line of dialogue from this scene and then ended up pulling it back to just this. So no, I didn't.

But man, yeah, I was excited for and the other line, which I can.

Yes, I don't have it.

He said, which do you object to more, Mrs. Ryan? That I'm black and she's white or that we're unmarried and about to have a child in sin?

Yeah.

Such a bag of shit.

Also, who is she calling a child? Because I just looked up their age and Bessie is supposed to be 25, which at that back then, like mid 20s, having kids was not odd. Even like, I'm sure when Graham was young, people had kids even younger.

Yeah.

I couldn't tell if she's trying to say to a literal extent their age is too young to have a child or if she thinks that their behavior is too child. Yeah, but even that, there are characters that own a restaurant together, and they are doing very well for themselves.

They have a nice house.

Also, uh remember how her mother died when she was young and the dad is kind of out of the picture. I really get the picture that Joey was raised by Bessie more than she was raised by her family. So actually, it seems like she's got some experience with this whole child rearing thing. Graham's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

And also, she doesn't even know them at all because earlier they're introduced. So it's like, who are you to be calling him a child when you don't even know him?

Well, it's because he recommended our recipe.

Wait, is she only calling body a child?

That's what my impression was.

Oh, I thought it was both of them because she just kind of vaguely says when children raise children, that was like the quote.

I agree with her. Rage seems to be focused more on bodies than Bessie, remember? Because when Bodie gives her feedback on it, Bessie redirects by saying the chicken was delicious. And Graham looks like, okay, thank you for noticing how good my food was. So she's really disappointed sensitive about any kind of interaction with Bodie because she's racist.

Yeah, well, Bessie loves my boiled chicken.

Yes.

Outside, Dawson's Jen enters their covered porch area thing to have a cigarette. And she spots Joey chilling by her lonesome, who's staring at Mitch Leery sitting in the Suburban, possibly contemplating a murder spree. They share the cigarette while Jen vents about Dawson being cold to her, and Joey thinks it's a mix of him venting his frustrations over his mom's affair mixed with his usual shallow outlook on human behavior. But more importantly, the women of Dawson's Creek used this as an opportunity to take a guess on how fat of a hog Dawson has sweetened between his legs. Joey's face contorts into a mix of salivated, pleasure, and grotesque whimsy, saying she thinks he's above average.

This is, again, an example of this show being a fantasy of a child. This is exactly what teenage boys think girls do when they're not around. Boys talk about how big my hog could be. Don't they have anything better to do? I don't know. Talk about what's actually going on. Why are they immediately just like, So do you think he's packing a pistol or a rifle?

Yeah.

I had made a joke a couple of episodes ago about how they fail the Bechtyl test every time. And this continues. When are they ever uh going to have a conversation that isn't just about boys? It's absurd. Also, how cool is it that kids are smoking cigarettes?

Yeah. Okay.

But what's really funny is when we first watched this, Cody and I, we somehow missed Jen SMO smoking the cigarette and just saw Joey smoke the cigarette. So we were like it was just like all of a sudden Joey was smoking mhm a cigarette and we were like, what the fuck Joey is smoking? But then on our free watch, we both realized that was Jen who had.

We don't see the hand off. It would have been cool to see Jen walk out. And then she hands it to Joey, but we don't see that.

It's very subtle.

It's very subtle.

Yeah.

I think it was like maybe the motion, but they didn't show it.

You see Joey's arm coming down from uh you don't see the hand off itself.

Yeah.

It's weird. I honestly didn't notice the cigarettes at all. Probably. I think Mal had to point it out to me. And it is really strange to see children smoking cigarettes. They're 15. They're well before the age of smoking cigarettes. But it's the 90s, baby. So why not? Let's just have them smoking uh a little cigarette there.

Jen came from New York. She's a big city. She's smoking.

I appreciate it because I'm a former smoker and I started smoking cigarettes when I was 15. So I was like, yeah, kind of realistic.

Yeah. I thought it was kind of realistic. Uh well, sure. I feel like a lot of people did smoke. I didn't, but it wasn't uncommon.

I don't think it's cool to see representation.

Cool smokers.

Yeah.

Also, one thing is that this show is owned by the Warner Brothers, and they recently in the last five or six years said that they'll no longer feature smoking tobacco products in any of their movies. So I don't know, there's something very I'm not condoning cigarette smoking. It's horrible. I quit for a reason. But it is very cinematic.

Yes.

It gives people something to do with their hands, which no one knows how to act with their hands. And smoke just looks cool on film.

It does. But it's interesting that in this shot we don't actually see them smoke. They're just holding cigarettes, basically, uh which is why I didn't notice that they never take a drag, they never exhale smoke. So it feels very artificial. Why are we including that?

Yeah. Also, I feel like if you were watching it at the time, I bet a lot of people didn't notice it because for us, we can go back and be like, wait, is she holding a cigarette versus watching it in the Bet, a lot of people didn't notice it. So it was kind of funny little thing that almost wasn't there.

Yeah.

It's so casual that it's not even there.

Yeah, totally. I mean, like I said, it was invisible to me. I did not notice until it was pointed out to me. I probably would have picked it up on one of my Re watches, but.

You know, it wasn't invisible to me. That big old cock conversation.

Yeah. And Joey uh like, awkward. The scene ends on, like a five second shot of Joey just being like.

And the uh face that she makes is so weird.

And also, Jen does this weird thing with her mouth and tongue when she talks uh about it. And it's so annoying. It's like she's trying to are you.

Referencing when she says, oh, you did think about this?

And then she's like, it's so weird.

That'S such a big part of it because it's like they were trying to figure out what they had been doing.

Exactly.

I bet she was like, oh, you have been thinking about it haha or something like that. But then she couldn't remember what she said. Uh so it just looks really weird.

Because she just says it looks like.

One of those, like, bad libretting uh a few times. At the end of the day, I've been thinking about his PC. There is also I think it's like right after the cigarette is handed over, you can see Katie Holmes mouth moving and no dialogue happening for a second. I don't know if anyone else noticed that, but I thought that was fun.

Yeah. I didn't understand the point of this scene in general.

It honestly should have been cut. I think they just did it because they needed more minutes in the episode.

So Dawson is in his dad's office workspace area cleaning up the architectural model for the Aquatic theme park. When Graham comes in to help, they find themselves bonding over the shared thematic sentiments of both Frank Capra and Steven Spielberg. She says an important lesson from those films is the theme of second chances, forgiveness, which clicks with our titular hero.

I'd like to point out that you did just say aquatic theme park.

Did I say aquatic theme park?

You did, but that sounds fun, too.

Maybe that's where he takes it after this slide off the table. Maybe he's like, Wait.

Casa uh Bonita? Doesn't Casa Bonita have rides in it? Casa Bonita? It's like a family fun center. I think it's uh in Colorado.

Okay, uh wait.

I am just curious where this came from.

Uh.

Restaurant theme park.

Costa Bonita.

Okay.

But I'm just saying I'm wondering if this is going to be a restaurantthempark like Casa Bonita. That's why I brought it up.

Okay.

I love it. Fun.

I love it. Uh um Is there a submarine ride there? No.

It looks like you can go swimming, though.

Oh, man. Nothing says getting some oysters in the half show. Like taking a dip in the pool. Baby, let's go. I'm ready.

Yes. I don't know if this is not true at all. Again, this podcast is all just a big fat joke to make me look like an idiot. But is it true that you're uh not allowed to swim after eating for 30 uh minutes?

Yes. The police will stop you. I mean, if he'll pull a gun.

Out and put it in your face over flirting with someone.

I know we're about to move on to the next scene. Again, I just like to hang on to the last second before I say anything. But um of course, Dawson would enjoy getting advice from Graham's here, right? Like, who would Dawson listen to? An old white person who hates him, especially an old white person who hates him and an old white person who is a film buff. Oh, my God, who better?

Okay, so I wondered about this uh because those two don't know each other very well. So I was trying to figure out, like, was Graham just sharing this wisdom because. Or does she know that Dawson loves movies?

Yeah, good question.

Yeah, Jen probably mentioned it.

You're Grahams, and you ask Jen what's he like. Jen goes, I don't know. He likes movies. Graham's being like, I know what to tell this boy.

Don't forget that Dawson also came to her house and said, hey, I'm not a sex crazed teenager, okay? So she knows that, too. He also is not a sex crazed teenager.

The message that she gave to him about forgiveness in these movies seemed to resonate so strongly with him. I don't know. It just seemed, like, weird to me that she was able to connect with him on such an intense level.

Well, she was using the language that he knows.

No, I know, but.

Okay, was that just luck that she.

Well, I bet. My guess is remember where this first initial interaction happens? It happens in the workroom, which, as we see, is really only partitioned off from the rest of the house by double glass doors. And they're all in the living room, which is in the main floor. So they're just in there talking about Bodie and Bessy's baby getting circumcised, and all of a sudden they hear about how Miss uh Landmates has been having sex every second of every day when she's not at home. So I bet Graham is just like, God damn this poor kid. I got to do something because this is fucked up.

Doesn't he say something to her? Like, at the beginning of the conversation, he's like, you heard, huh?

Yes.

Uh oh, yes, I heard it all.

Yeah. Why does she talk like she is a Stephen King character?

She's Atlantic Catherine Hepburn accent.

She just was rap shooting on Pet Sematary, and she came over here.

We go back to tomorrow's where they're playing Monopoly tomorrow, and Doug are continuing to hit it off with their shared love of Broadway musicals. Doug asks her out on a date, to which Tamara turns him down, saying that she knows he's gay and insists that Pacey didn't tell her because she has good gay Dar. In an attempt to prove his heteronormativity, Doug pulls out his police issued phalliclooking pistol and aims it at Pacey's face, exclaiming that Pacey must tell tomorrow that he is straight. That will convince anyone. Pacey quells Tamara's fear over the introduced gun, uh saying he does this all the time, and admits uh that Doug is not gay. Doug holsters the weapon and they get back to their fun evening.

Doug should not be a cop. Uh right? We can all agree here. Anybody. I feel like anybody, even the back of the blue people should look at this and be like, yeah, this guy shouldn't have a gun.

Yeah. This entire family has thin blue lines. He does this all the time.

Yeah, he does this stuff all the time.

Well, his family of cops, they must.

All do this, pulling guns on each other.

Thanksgiving.

I want the dark meat. I'm not gay.

I found it interesting that in the scene with Jen and Joey are the referencing guns. And then here's another gun.

Uh yeah. This episode is just like, Bam, Bam, Bam. There's just so much happening. Every scene is just. There's a lot happening, and I love the intensity.

I'm curious, where would you rather be, Stella? Would you rather be in the Leary household with conversations of circumcision and adultery, or would you rather be in the Jacob's household where you might have a gun pointed at your head?

I think the Leery household.

Really? Yeah. Okay.

Fun hanging out with Jenkins.

That's true.

There's space. You can kind of go, like, just play Jaws in the closet if you want to.

Exactly.

Could be in the truck with Mr. Leary.

That's true. Listening to RM or play with the Kelp.

Is that where you'd be, Dawson?

I think Dawson would rather be in the other household.

I'd be in my bedroom watching the television program.

Cody, would you be at the Lee household, too? Or would you be at the Jacob's home?

I'd be Joey in the fetal position in the closet hoping that no one notices me. And then it'll all blow over.

Where are you going to be?

Leery household.

I'm the only person over at Mrs. House. Yeah, dude. I love playing board games. I love a good board game night. And there is, in my opinion, few things better than a really stormy, disgusting night out and playing a board game. Especially if you've got a fire going.

I do think that the lyrics households would have a better selection of board games.

You think so?

Yes.

It's not a monopoly.

Just if you look at their house, I feel like there's like lots of fun stuff in there uh and you could find where the board game was.

Covered and get some good, like a game where you have to fuck each other. A game where uh you have to take pictures of your genitals and show each other. And guess whose is whose?

You know, when Tomorrow was pulling out the game, she had to Taboo. In uh the second. I was like, well, of course they're going to play Taboo because that's what the show is.

But I thought they were going to pull out Twister.

And then Pacey and his brother came.

Yeah.

You know what's so funny? All this talk of this proves that Doug's gay. He likes musicals or anything. You know what proves that Doug's gay? Pulling out a gun and screaming, I'm not gay.

I love the dialogue of being like, did you tell her I'm gay?

Like, you've done it before.

Exactly. This is a regular occurrence between Dog and Pacey.

But also like, why would Tamara say that? She knows when Pacey had said that his parents were judgmental about it or something.

Yeah, um because she has good gaitar.

Exactly. Well, she lived in the gate yesterday.

She could have just said, there, right there, that.

Oh, no, I am seeing someone. Yeah, exactly.

This show is so weird. This really is the episode that every scene while watching it, I was like, can't get any worse. And then another scene happens and I go, oh, no, it can.

Yeah.

So speaking of scenes getting worse, Mitch is still sitting in the driver's seat of a Suburban and Gail pops in. He guesses that it's Bob that she's been sleeping with and then talks about how the first time he met her, he made a decision right then and there to love her. He says that that love has lasted, but this time he's taking aback and now he chooses to hate her. He yells at her to get out of the car and threatens to physically remove her from it. She gets out standing alone in the pouring rain as he dries off.

Yeah. So thankfully uh now I have this clip.

I choose to hate you now.

Felt like it was, you know, like when kids fight, like, I choose to hate you. I hate you.

Yes.

You know, this show is written by people that don't know anything about love or relationships in general, because I love that they're trying to say that for Mitch, a grown man, his whole idea of what love is is something that you just choose. And it's like, uh I knew that day that I chose it, and I've stuck with that choice, but now I've taken back that choice. I do not choose it.

Yeah. What is it with the Leery men and their ideas of love and relationships? Because both of them have a very flawed idea of what love is.

It's 1998. I pick up my guitar that is drop D. I put up the microphone next to my mouth, and I'm about to uh scream. My first song, I choose hate.

Uh.

I love the music. The beginning of the scene, it's, like, very sweet uh and soft, and then.

It'S just, like, sharp turn slowly shifts after the thunderclap.

But it's like, why this whole dog and pony show of Mr. Leary setting up the romance? I don't know. It just seems like a very weird way.

He um wants to twist the knife. He wants to make her hurt. Like she made him hurt, I guess. But it is so performative. What was that friend's name that Persephone?

Yeah. She touches her face to be like this romantic story.

He's giving her hope just to snatch it away.

It's like that switch flip and the other scene, and then he just gets so aggressive.

I don't know.

Well, this show isn't written for the characters. I feel like they're writing the show for the audience and only the audience because that scene was only written for the twist of him to say, I truly hate. I'm going to drag you out of this car.

Get out. Yeah. I do think that Ms. Leary looks absolutely uh terrible. Yes. She's clearly just been standing in the rain for, like, 6 hours waiting for Mr. Lee to unlock his car. I like the idea that she's just been standing outside of his car, like, let me in, please. Let me in. Stop listening to cake. Let me in, please. Yes.

I felt bad for her here. It was terrifying.

I feel terrible just in general for Mary Margaret Humes, who played Gail because she probably had to stand under some shower for an hour.

Yeah, I had thought about that a few times in this episode um when we see her soaking wet, I was like, this poor woman. But was this the scene where we get that close up of her face.

Where she's, like, sobbing? Yeah.

It's like, so jarring.

Yeah.

It's after he says, I choose hate now.

Yeah. The first time we get that is when he shines a flashlight on her face, and then I think we get it again. In this scene, do you have the.

Power and technology to do the clip of I choose hate now and then the.

Yeah. Watch me work.

I choose to hate you.

Now uh music for my ear. So after this happens, he screams at her, you better get out of the car before I beat the shit out of you and leave you for dead, basically. And she steps out of the car and then he just like speeds off. Where does he go? It's a fucking Hurricane. Nothing's open. Also go to a bar Where's he going.

The best part about this is that we do not know how long this episode takes place. Is this a day? Is this a week? This could have been a year that they've been in this house. If Kevin Williamson was like, oh yeah, it took place over ten years. Yeah, it's like that would make just as much sense as this took place over the course of 2 hours. Like uh insane. Where did he go?

It's weird. Anybody have any final thoughts before we take our final commercial break here? Alright, sweet. Well, we will be back on the other side.

Um.

We'Re back. Well, some time has passed. How much time? No one knows. And we get a quick little vignette of the townies pulling down the boards from Capeside Shops as audio of Bob's newscast is played non digestively, stating that the storm is over.

I have one quick thing about this very brief scene. There's a shot on the board of Crossbound.

Chris. Yes, I love that fuck.

You can't fuck with Cape Town.

It was long enough for them to put the boards up.

Someone.

I think the town owes grants a big thank you for keeping them all safe because clearly nothing really happened because of his watchful eye.

Exactly. Well, at Tamara's, Doug is taking down the boards from her windows mhm and he apologizes for pulling out a gun and threatening to murder Pacey over questioning his sexuality. She laughs it off with a breezy smile and he once again asks if she'd want to go out sometime. With a knowing twinkle in her eye, she declines, saying that she's already seeing someone. Pacey lights up like a kid in a candy store as he and Doug leave while Tomorrow shakes her head, smiling as though thinking, oh, boys will be boys.

Okay, so yeah, here's where we hear her say it's been an interesting day. So we know the storm has been less than 24 hours.

Um.

Then he said sorry about the gunplay. And she responds with, um hey, yeah.

What are you going to do? Coffs will be cops.

And then he proceeds to ask her.

Out in the same breath pulled out.

A gun in your house.

But the only thing she knows about this man is that when he's kind of angry, he is willing to pull a gun out and put it in your face. Back at the Leary household, Dawson sneaks a peek of his mom sitting on the front porch, soaking wet and deep contemplation. He closes the door on her and is confronted by Jen about his bad attitude. She details her New York sex life, how she was drinking heavily and being taken advantage of at the age of twelve. The straw that broke the camel's uh back was her being caught having sex with someone in her parents'bed. She tells Dawson she isn't that girl anymore, but she's far from perfect and he's just going to have to accept it. And finally, Dawson apologizes to her, admitting that it's his fault for being too judgmental. She doesn't apologize for her past and accepts that it's made her who she is now, but wants to have a new chapter with Dawson being a part of it. He says his behavior has been irredeemable, that he doesn't deserve someone as incredible as her and to that they embrace.

Yeah, this is how we basically found out that she was raped and that her parents have punished her for something that wasn't her fault, sending her away and not like getting her therapy or.

Getting her any kind of help. Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of called this when we were talking about this episode or about her kind of background in the last episode. You're like, yeah, I think she kind of like it was too early for her to be making these kinds of decisions. And we come to find out she was not consciously choosing to have sex so young. And she even goes on to say she was sexualized way too young and that sex at such a young age is often a really bad idea. So we get a little bit of moralism here coming from Jen's mouth. And I do find it interesting that uh Dawson chooses not to acknowledge uh anything she says whatsoever. There is no recognition in his mind of the fact that she just was honest with him about her reality and her situation and instead is like, oh, but it's actually about me. Don't you understand? It's actually about me and my hang ups. It's not about you and your past, which I felt was very typical. Tossing Well, here's the thing.

They did the most softball approach to this conversation that they possibly could. She never said that she was sexually assaulted. Instead, everything is like, tiptoeing around. It just to be like, I was having sex. Don't really remember doing it, though. I was drinking a lot. I don't do that anymore. My dad doesn't like the fact that I was having sex. I'm here now, and it's like they never really explicitly say anything. And they do make it more like this vague like, oh, I got into drinking and the sex just happened, but they're not going to actually talk about anything, which is really frustrating. And I think it's a product of 90s television. That's why. Yeah, I don't know. It's the only reason that I'm not going as hard into Dawson is the fact that for him, he's taking everything that she's saying. Everything is 100% accurate, and they're not ever going to reach that conversation about being sexually assaulted as a minor. He's just taking it as like, oh, that's awful that she drank a lot and got into weird stuff, and now she's here. I mean, Dawson still sucks, but at the same time, the limitations of how he can accept what she's saying is the only way that makes his reaction okay to me.

Yeah. I feel like he did show a little bit of sense of understanding. When they show his face, he kind of has that look of like, oh, shit, okay.

It's definitely heavy for you.

Yeah.

It only gets really bad when he's like, you're the most beautiful, intelligent. Right now, we're back to children talking to each other prepared line. Yes. At the very least, I'm just happy that Dawson is actually apologizing for something, even if he's not fully in to his apology. At least he's having some kind of awareness that's making him start to self actualize mhm a little bit. While Tamara is still taking down her storm prep, Pacey swings back around to hang. He asks her if she could redo anything in her life, what would it be? To which she would respond that she wouldn't have married her ex husband. When she asks Pacey, he says he wished he was an older man so he could tell the world that he's falling in love with her. He embraces her from behind, proclaiming his jealousy of every man that has ever been in her life. Tamara um rightfully says that they're getting sloppy with their outward affection, and it's getting far too dangerous. As if not hearing her, Pacey asks her if she could do anything right now, what would it be? To which she smiles and pulls him into the house to have sex.

Yeah. Pacey puts his red flags just right out on display right here. He knows that she is a victim of domestic abuse from her previous abuse of ex husband. And he's just like, yeah, well, I'm jealous of any fucking dude who's ever seen you ever in your entire life. I want to kill them all. You dare look at them.

I thought this was the first time that we actually hear Ms. Jacobs say that her husband was abusive. She's kind of referred to the relationship being dysfunctional, not healthy. But this is the first time that she says it was an abusive relationship. And, I mean, maybe she and Pacey have talked about it before, but Pacey.

Doesn'T acknowledge it at all.

No, he doesn't. This is also another one of those products of the 90s moments, because what's the first descriptor um for her ex wife or her ex husband? He's fat. Okay, cool. So are those two things related, or.

Did they say that he was into stocks?

Yeah, well, I wouldn't have married an abusive, fat stock broker is what the loan is.

But yeah, who also antiques, maybe, but yeah.

Yikes. The Rue that PC says falling in love.

Yes.

For sure, we've already talked at length about how we all hate this, but the relationship is so interesting to me because, again, uh they're playing it as if this is like a denied romance, Romeo and Juliet. And it's like, oh, we're getting too sloppy.

Totally.

But isn't that the part that turns you on the most?

It's very film noir. Like star crossed lovers. We're destined to be together, but society is keeping us from being together kind of a story. And, yeah, society is keeping you apart because uh it's illegal.

Um so after what we can only assume was Mitch blowing off some steam earlier, we thought maybe he just drove around the block. He comes back home to find Gail sitting on the front porch. He asks her why she had an affair, and uh she tells him that she was basically bored and restless since her life had turned out exactly the way she wanted it. She wanted to once again and achieve something, and that thing ended up being Bob. But now, after the house of cards has fallen, she just wants back everything she's lost. As she begins to apologize, Mitch gives her a couple and says he's done talking, and they should just sit in it.

I just noticed on the note of how long this storm was, it is evening now because the storm is gone and it was getting dark. The Sun's going down.

Oh, that's why it's golden.

So I made that note.

Okay. So I took that golden light as uh if it were morning. But you're totally right. It must be sunset rather than sunrise.

Yeah, I thought it looked like that Gale was covered in confetti or streamers. The way that.

There'S, like, a screen with debris on it.

Maybe she's covered in kelp.

But I also love that when she was talking about her wonderful life, she says uh that she has the most gifted child. I wrote that down to.

I was like, he truly is the most average person on Earth. Here's the thing. She says that her life turned out the way that she wanted it to. But less than 20 minutes ago, she said that she wanted to become a big time news anchor or talk show host like Diane Sawyer, Barbara Walters. This show has already forgotten the reasons as to why she wanted to have an affair within the same script. You're writing the script, you look at it again, it's apparent texting and just not looking at what they're sending. It is absurd. Yeah.

Did anybody else just think that when Mr. Leary shushes her, he's just about to fall asleep? Because that's definitely what I thought. I was trying to sleep.

I couldn't sleep in the car.

Been driving all night because I again thought it was morning.

Oh, and again, what's this knockoff Bruce Springsteen song that he's rolling up to?

Healing Hands by Mark Cohn. And yeah, it feels like it's bruth? Eboy about to walk us through rock and roll in the USA or whatever the uh fuck.

Yeah. I wonder about the music, and I don't know, in some episodes, it feels like it's very the music is catered more towards teens, and then there are times where they play um songs like this where it's like, oh, are we trying to also cater the show to adults? I don't know. It's like, is this supposed to be like a family show?

I know.

I really feel like the moral of this story is angled more at the adults that are watching this show because it feels like the ultimate moral of this episode. Perfection obtained is an unsettling thing. Right. Like, grass is always greener. Once you get the things you want, you're actually not any happier than you were when you wanted those things. It just makes you want more because now you've achieved those things, and that feels like something that won't resonate with teen. I wouldn't have understood this episode. I don't think as much as a teen as I would now watching it at 65 years old or whatever I am.

Well, yeah. It's dealing with issues that only adults would really connect with. Are we supposed to think we don't know anything about the future, but with Dawson SAG, does that just mean that this storyline is basically over?

That's what I thought.

Is this all wrapped up already?

I don't think. Yeah.

I bet we'll see a couple of scenes of him sleeping on the uh couch or something like that. There'll be some tension at home. But I do feel like this is our way of seeing. Okay. He's willing to brush this on.

He's just like, I don't want to talk about it anymore right now. Let's just sit here in silence. Yeah.

Because if we think back to in the Suburban, he doesn't say, I don't love you anymore. He says, I don't want to love you anymore. I choose to hate you. I'm interpreting that as, like, this moment where he shushes her is him kind of succumbing to his own, like, okay, well, I can't just stop loving you. This is too difficult for me. Let's stop talking about this because I choose to hate you.

I choose to hate you.

There we go. Um.

This shows is not good. And I feel like this will never get picked up again. I will not be surprised if the next episode. They just never talk about this ever again. I can imagine it. Yeah.

I wonder.

And this whole affair has been handled so poorly. This whole plot line, it just like, came and went. There was never really anything happened from it. Nothing interesting was built with it.

It almost felt like these first few episodes were like a prequel to Dawson's Creed.

Yeah.

It was like we're building up all this conflict for Dawson to break down Dawson's perfect life. And now it's, like, all come to a head. And now it feels like, okay, now we're going to start the show it.

Kind of goes along with Joey's line about Dawson's life. Like, it's going to be a bumpy ride. It's almost like that's the queue where, like, here we go, here's the build up, and now we're getting into it kind of thing.

Well, in our final scene, Dawson goes to his room and finds Joey once again curled up, but this time sitting on top of his dresser. He finally apologizes to her for being thoughtless and insensitive, and she says that she's sorry for pulling the mom card earlier. They both reflect on the existential reality of death and how that now that her mom's gone, she doesn't remember any of her mistakes. Dawson asks her how he could be a good friend to her, and she says that she just wants to put their adulthood on hold. So he drags her into the closet so they can pretend play the plot of Jaws. And we closed the episode on a shot of a stuffed shark eating a toy scuba diver on Dawson's day.

Love that.

I don't know. I feel like, okay, this is great that Dawson has shown some growth or maturity or whatever, but that all came from Graham's giving him a lesson about um forgiveness via movies. I don't know. Just seemed like, really weird that all of a sudden he's just been such a selfish asshole up to this point.

And then all of a sudden he's.

Like, hey, I get it again, advice from the worst character in this show.

I kind of struggle with this because Graham, as you guys just pointed out, she is the person who's really delivering the moral of this story. And we're supposed to accept her wisdom because it's accurate and it makes sense. But what I find challenging with it is she's also the most problematic character in the episode, right? She's a racist. She's like, hyper traditionalist. She is unwilling to see other people's perspectives. And we're supposed to just excuse all of that because, like she says, forgiveness is the most important thing.

And it's so funny that the message is forgiveness. And we don't get a scene of her begging and apologizing. I mean, like, Holy shit, what she did was horrible. And not once do we see herself actualize and be like, wow, maybe I was a little too racist earlier.

Maybe we'll get that in the next episode.

That's what I'm thinking.

Maybe she'll be present for the birth. She was a nurse.

So I think maybe I may have read the brief description of the next episode.

Yeah, I just read it right now. I read a disturbing line at the end.

Did you get a sound clip of Dawson saying Sharp Friday?

That's a 20 footer. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and play this. Make sure I play the right clip. Here we go. Sheriff Brody, that's a 20 footer. Why is it he's come back for his noon speeding?

Got to get a shot at this Auckland's head smile yourself. We're going to need a bigger boat.

How do you play Jaws?

Apparently, it's just that you just sit.

In the closet and pretend that the shark is coming at you, but you giggle. Yeah.

Wasn't that fun?

Yeah. Are they just sitting there face to face saying lines uh at each other?

Yeah.

That's a small space.

Yeah. They're both sitting in the fetal position because that's apparently the only way you can fit in that closet. And they're just going, I got to need a bigger boat.

We're going to need a bigger closet.

It's weird.

Weird game. I did a lot of, like, pretending we're uh in movies with my friends. It didn't usually take the form of literally just repeating the lines from the movie at each other, though, for Dawson.

That is playing, if you really think about it, he doesn't have um an imagination because his monster movie is just a rip off of other movies. His line of thinking is based on films. So he doesn't have an imagination, he doesn't have a conscience.

I actually kind of think that Dawson is a Cyborg. I think that he has been uploaded into his hard drive. He has every Steven Spielberg screenplay that exists uploaded in there. That's why he loves Spielberg so much. And he also has a bunch of, like, cult horror films. And that's why he is so inhuman is because he literally is not a human. He is just a computer with skin on him. Well, should we move into our ratings? Are we done talking about the episode?

Yes, please get me out of here.

All right, who wants to go first with their rating?

I give it a ten out of five.

Wow.

Absolutely loved this up. Loved all of it. I loved finding out more about Pacey's life, his family, love seeing all the characters interact together. And yeah, I feel like um we're just like, moving right along.

Moving right along. I completely and totally agree. This is my favorite episode so far. Uh everything that I have been asking for from this show is actually seeing our characters interact uh in more than just the pairs that they exist in. And we finally got it. I also got plenty of confirmation that vampires exist in this world. I would say if um I were to dock anything from this episode, it was the fact that there was so little music, there uh was very little that tied this to the nostalgia. So if I had to docket anything, I would give it a half point reduction for that. But I think that that still nets a nine and a half out of five.

Uh i'm going to give it my first five.

Wow.

Yeah. Five out of five. I also enjoyed this. Like, it was interesting to see interactions um between different characters. I'm curious what is going to happen between Mr. And Mrs. Leary? And um will the kelp become uh a thing?

Yeah, that's fine. Um that's the question.

Will we see the kelp come to fruition.

It almost feels like he's about to give up on it.

I think so. Also curious if uh Doug will continue to be a character and what's going to happen with him. And I'm um really curious if Bodie and Bessie are going to circumcise their baby.

Okay, my enjoyment if we're just talking about that five out of five as an episode of television, this gets like a 1.5. The only reason uh it gets any kind of rating at all, I would say, is because Dawson has some sort of self actualization, uh as shallow as that may be and how it still is focusing on the way that he is interacting with his world instead of him actually accepting things and learning from them. At least he is now apologizing for making people feel bad, which is a good first step. But yeah, this feels like a script was written in an hour and.

Uh.

Everything is just like a first draft. Script characters don't make uh any sense. The things that we've learned about people kind of fall to the wayside things that I thought that would make much more of an impact, like Mitch and Gail's um relationships, it no longer matters. Yeah, garbage stuff.

I agree. It's not a good episode. I uh don't think by any means, despite how much I love it. Like we pointed out, it's just full of lazy storytelling.

I'm hate watching it, but I hate love it.

Did you say that you choose hate? Would you say that you choose hate?

I choose to hate you now. I choose to hate you now. Like I said, this show is written by idiots. The pilot, I was so excited because I love Scream. I was like, Kevin Williamson is so brilliant. He knows everything about everything and he's so good with the kids. He's not. He's not good at characters. These characters do not make sense. Nothing is following through. Did they even have a whiteboard or uh post it notes? When they're writing out who these characters are and where they're going to end up, it almost feels like each episode, it's like a fresh new blank slate. Like, hey, so what do you want to do today? I don't know. Let's see what happens.

All right.

It's like, let's throw in this characteristic for this person.

And I know that it's the late 90s, so like, people were casually racist or whatever, but just the fact that that entire thread just goes nowhere. And then we also never get an ending to Bodie and Bessy just like, what are they doing after the storm ended? Why.

They get in their paddle boat, they roll their ass down the coast.

And her water breaks, and she has.

A baby on a boat. Interesting. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry uh that you didn't appreciate this episode like the True Film Appreciation Society, which is Stella Mallory and I.

But the thing still is that I enjoyed this episode more than any other episode. And uh if the rest of the series continues in this trajectory, this might end up being my favorite show of all time because it's written by aliens. It's filmed by aliens. It's acted by aliens. Michelle Williams, if you ask her right now, like, hey, what was life like on Dawson's Creek? She'd be like, I was abducted by aliens and they forced me to do this.

Well, I mean, I can't think of a better segue into our recommendations than that. So should we move on to our recommendations? Does anybody want to go first?

I'll go first.

Okay.

I'm going to recommend bird watching.

Wow.

Backyard bird watching.

It's the season.

Yeah, it's the season. It's springtime. You can get yourself a pair of pocket binoculars and just step out your backyard and watch some birds.

Look at them.

And don't forget to listen to them as well, too.

They're not just pretty.

It's just a nice hobby. Nice and relaxing. You can take ten minutes to walk around the block and look at some birds.

I'll go next. I have an amendment to my last recommendation, as well as a current recommendation. So last week, um I recommended the Ban King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard, specifically a couple of albums. Well, immediately following the recording of that episode, they went and um released a brand new record. It's called Omnium Gathering. Uh and I actually went back after the release of that and listened to their entire 20 album Discography. And uh I honestly probably should just start a whole other podcast just to talk about King Gizzard lore. Um but let me just say that Omnium Gathering is probably the newest, best starting point for getting into King Gizzard. It represents all of their different genre, explorations, storytelling style, songwriting styles. There's literally a song for every uh single audience. So first recommendation, go find Omnium Gathering and take a listen to it. Now for my real recommendation for this um week. It is my very favorite improv troupe as well as podcast group. They are called Big Grande. They recently released a really cool project called Live Onset where they recorded four different improv shows where all of the improv actors got hair and makeup. They had four different sets as if it were a play. Except none of them know what the play is about. None of them know anything about what they are doing until the moment they open their eyes live on stage and see all of their other actors in costume on set for the first time in front of a live audience. And then they improvise a story. You can find the first episode of this on YouTube. It's free. It is hilarious. The premise is that they are shooting a movie in the 20s um and they are improvising this noir film together for the first time, while also all discovering that half uh of them are in black and white makeup and half of them are in 20s attire. And it's hilarious. It's honestly one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time. So big, Grande live on set. Go check it out. It's uh hilarious.

I'll recommend hacks came out a while ago, but the second season is about to drop, I think in a couple of weeks. It's may 1 right uh now. Yeah, it's on HBO Max. It's a great show about female comedians. Um one is like kind of at the tail end of her career and one is more in the beginning of her career and they are very different and they are forced to work together and it is extremely funny and also very heartfelt and sweet. Um i loved it and I'm very excited for it to return.

My recommendation this week is a food topping called Karikari. It's super crunchy and garlicky, spicy kind of mixed stuff. Some good friends of ours gave me a jar for my birthday uh and it has changed my life. The website description is Karikari uh is crispy, garlic loaded mommy bomb of a chili uh crisp. Imagine the biggest and crispiest pieces of garlic, shallots, peanuts and more with layers of flavor uh in a rich and balanced chili oil. It's great on everything pizza, ramen, Mac and cheese, chicken and rice, Anything and everything. And it's cool. It's made by a couple in their apartment in Seattle, so it's a super small Pacific northwest business. You can order uh jars directly from their website or use their store locator to see if it's near you and you can find them on Instagram at eatkarikari. Karikari is spelled K-A-R-I.

We need to send some to Graham.

Oh, no.

That sounds super tasty.

What about the next episode?

Next episode? Season one, episode six. It is titled baby, which is not a reference to the Justin Bieber song. Here is the description straight out of Netflix. It says as word of Pacey's affair with Tamara gets um excuse me? Tamara gets uh out. Bassy must seek help. And who does she seek help from? Graham. So she seeks help from Graham to deliver her baby. What an episode. I'm really looking forward to it. I think that if anything we've learned of this show so far, it is only going to get crazier and crazier as we go. Well, thank uh you all so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, Please go ahead and subscribe to our show um and join us as we continue to set sail through uh the turbulent waters of Dawson's Creek. If you want more Creek's content, you can find us online at freaksandcreeekspod and feel free to get in touch with us at [email protected]. We'll see you next time on freaksandcreeks at Dawson's Creek podcast.

I choose to love um you.

Bye you.